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Hole-in-the-Head Disease?

Discussion about fish health and water chemistry.

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Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:41 am
jergrafs User avatar
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Posts: 44
Location: Apple Valley, MN
Hey all,

We rescued numerous fish tonight. Two of which are sick Parrot Cichlids (I am not sure the exact variety - let me know if you can identify them). They seem to have open lesions on their heads. They are very pretty otherwise.

I am proactively treating them with:
[*]Erythromycin
[*]General Cure
[*]Prevent Ich (ICH Inhibitor)
[*]PIMAFIX
[*]and Stress Zyme+

So, they are basically swimming in a medicinal bath. But, I didn't over dose and they are swimming around actively without other side effects.

Can anyone confirm with confidence that this is hole-in the-head-disease?
This is my first encounter with any significant fish illness. I haven't kept Cichlids before. I raised the water temp. to 83(F). Water parameters in my tank should be pretty stable. But, I will do a water test tomorrow. The tank I got them from, seems to have been pretty dirty and I don't think they were eating too well. I am holding off on feeding them for now until they adjust a bit.

I am just happy to give them a clean new home. They seem to be doing well with their new tank. I am open to all thoughts and suggestions for them. I moved them into a fully cycled 55 gallon hex tank. There are several tall rocks and plants in the tank... along with pond snails, which I think these guys might be eating. Thank you in advance for taking a look and providing suggestions.

Here is a link to photos of the fish:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Jer.
Last edited by jergrafs on Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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https://aquarium.mn/members/profile/jergrafs

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:19 am
willie Level 8 Member
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Posts: 1426
Location: Minneapolis
As a simple rule, fish should be medicated in a hospital tank. It's a barebottom tank with a heater and a cycled sponge. Medication can have adverse impacts on snails, plants, etc.

Willie

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:23 am
jergrafs User avatar
Level 2 Member
Level 2 Member

Posts: 44
Location: Apple Valley, MN
willie wrote:
As a simple rule, fish should be medicated in a hospital tank. It's a barebottom tank with a heater and a cycled sponge. Medication can have adverse impacts on snails, plants, etc.

Willie

Hey Willie,

Yep, I completely agree.
However, we rescued several different types of fish yesterday, that all needed different water parameters.
I ended up consolidating fish I already had into their own tanks to keep them from getting sick and the new fish got the tanks I had available.
It wasn't an ideal situation at all and I ended up getting all of my cycled tanks loaded before I realized that these guys were in such rough shape. I didn't really have another space appropriate tank for them to go into right away. They were sloshing around in an ice cream pail when I got them and my first and biggest concern was primarily just getting them in clean cycled water. In the future I will certainly heed this advice if possible. I just didn't have the space prepared as this wasn't fully planned.

Jer.
Last edited by jergrafs on Fri May 03, 2019 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Check out my current fish list and photos:
https://aquarium.mn/members/profile/jergrafs

Post Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:58 am
jergrafs User avatar
Level 2 Member
Level 2 Member

Posts: 44
Location: Apple Valley, MN
Update:
The Parrots are swimming around much more actively than they were yesterday.
Their lesions seem to be healing and are much less red and irritated than they were.
Also, they seem to be quite voracious eaters. So, that is not a symptom I need to worry about.

Jer.
Check out my current fish list and photos:
https://aquarium.mn/members/profile/jergrafs

Post Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:44 am
Passionfish Level 20 Member
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Posts: 12129
Location: apple valley, mn
Among scientists of vetinary science there remains questions regarding etiology of HIH and/or lateral line disease. There is evidence for and against bacterial infection. Those who suspect bacterial involvement do not agree on species of bacteria and the suspected bacteria studied are not closely related. Virual infection is also a proposed cause of HIH. Others have studied mineral imbalance as cause of HIH.
"Dirty" water is not under study to my knowledge. I have used medication to treat HIH and was not convinced the fish improved. However, changing water more frequently resulted in improvement and healing in most cases. In one group, no treatment reversed what ultimately developed into serious erosions and death/euthanasia.

Lateral line disease is known in various fish families and is observed in both wild and captive fishes from various fish families. HIH is found mainly in captive fish but is considered a type of LLD by those who study LLD.
Like a complete unknown

Post Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:03 am
Passionfish Level 20 Member
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Posts: 12129
Location: apple valley, mn
In general a medication "shotgun" approach is not a sound practice. The combined use of many medications concurrently is rarely studied and the effects are unknown. Antibiotics are specific for various bacteria and general have a very limited effect on host. As the number of antibiotics increase the symbiotic or "good" bacteria may be killed also resulting in a negative effect on host. Not all medications are antibiotics, many are toxic to parasites at prescribed doses and safe for host. When multiple medications share the same mechanism of toxicity, the use of two or more concurrently may affect the host.

Not all fish families respond to medications/toxins at same dosage levels. A known example are a few medications for scaled fish may be toxic for fish without scales.
Like a complete unknown

Post Fri May 03, 2019 11:31 am
jergrafs User avatar
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Posts: 44
Location: Apple Valley, MN
Update:

Thanks for the replies!
The fish are doing great. Their "holes" are healing well with some scarring.
They are now in a 75 gallon Cichlid tank with several friends who have all been happy and healthy together.
Check out my current fish list and photos:
https://aquarium.mn/members/profile/jergrafs

Post Sun May 05, 2019 9:36 am
Passionfish Level 20 Member
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Posts: 12129
Location: apple valley, mn
Happy together. How old are you Jer?
Like a complete unknown

Post Tue May 07, 2019 1:34 pm
jergrafs User avatar
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Posts: 44
Location: Apple Valley, MN
Passionfish wrote:
Happy together. How old are you Jer?


Passionfish, I will be 35 in June. :)

How about you?
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Post Tue May 07, 2019 2:04 pm
Passionfish Level 20 Member
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Posts: 12129
Location: apple valley, mn
1967 A musical group, The Turtles, released a song titled Happy Together. That was why I asked as that was long ago. I have found a number of endeavors have also used Happy Together.
67 years old
Like a complete unknown

Post Tue May 07, 2019 3:34 pm
jergrafs User avatar
Level 2 Member
Level 2 Member

Posts: 44
Location: Apple Valley, MN
Passionfish wrote:
1967 A musical group, The Turtles, released a song titled Happy Together. That was why I asked as that was long ago. I have found a number of endeavors have also used Happy Together.
67 years old


"Imagine me and you, and you and me, no matter how they toss the dice it had to be ... so happy together"?

I actually listened to this on vinyl 45 growing up! hahaha... :D
I eventually converted it onto cassette tape.
I am well familiar! Call me an old soul. Ha!
Check out my current fish list and photos:
https://aquarium.mn/members/profile/jergrafs

Post Wed May 08, 2019 12:25 am
Passionfish Level 20 Member
Level 20 Member

Posts: 12129
Location: apple valley, mn
:lol:
Like a complete unknown


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